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	<title>Comments on: Creating a classless system with 4E</title>
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	<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/</link>
	<description>Exploring RPGs through play and design</description>
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		<title>By: Soup</title>
		<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/comment-page-1/#comment-623</link>
		<dc:creator>Soup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 15:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pathsofadventure.com/?p=34#comment-623</guid>
		<description>Hey 3.5 all the way!
.-= Soup&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://starlightselectricsoup.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-earthquake-still-not-fixed.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Haiti earthquake - still not fixed&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey 3.5 all the way!<br />
<span class="cluv"> Soup&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://starlightselectricsoup.blogspot.com/2010/01/haiti-earthquake-still-not-fixed.html" rel="nofollow">Haiti earthquake &#8211; still not fixed</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.pathsofadventure.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Skip</title>
		<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/comment-page-1/#comment-622</link>
		<dc:creator>Skip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jan 2010 12:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pathsofadventure.com/?p=34#comment-622</guid>
		<description>I think that a classless system is much more realistic. But I do also think that a class can be a useful tarting point from a role-playing point of view. This is especially true with novice players. That said, I think being sucked into a stereo-typed role is the antithesis of the freedom and imagination that RPGs (at there best) allow to flourish.
.-= Skip&#180;s last blog ..&lt;a href=&quot;http://skip-to-the-end.com/highway-to-hate/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Highway to Hate&lt;/a&gt; =-.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that a classless system is much more realistic. But I do also think that a class can be a useful tarting point from a role-playing point of view. This is especially true with novice players. That said, I think being sucked into a stereo-typed role is the antithesis of the freedom and imagination that RPGs (at there best) allow to flourish.<br />
<span class="cluv"> Skip&#180;s last blog ..<a href="http://skip-to-the-end.com/highway-to-hate/" rel="nofollow">Highway to Hate</a> <span class="heart_tip_box"><img class="heart_tip" alt="My ComLuv Profile" border="0" width="16" height="14" src="http://www.pathsofadventure.com/wp-content/plugins/commentluv/images/littleheart.gif"/></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Joshua Sorenson (Shazbot)</title>
		<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/comment-page-1/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Joshua Sorenson (Shazbot)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 May 2009 15:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pathsofadventure.com/?p=34#comment-27</guid>
		<description>The class/level system of D&amp;D seems pretty intrinsic to the design. This is especially true with 4th Edition. It can be worked around, but the conversion would require a bit of work.

One way to do this, rather than going completely classless, is to broaden the concept of &quot;character class&quot; to the four class roles, Defender, Striker, Controller and Leader, each with it&#039;s own generic mechanic promoting the role. This would determine defensive bonuses, hit points, healing surges, etc. as well as basic function.

From there, players choose a power source similar to the way you mentioned, from which to draw their powers. Each power source could have a unique mechanic for each of the generic role function mechanics that enhances it&#039;s effect. For instance the striker&#039;s extra damage mechanic could do an extra die of damage to a single foe for the Martial source, while a Divine striker&#039;s extra damage does damage equal to the relevant ability modifier to foes adjacent to the target.

You could also institute a favored ability mechanic, similar to Castles &amp; Crusades, wherein the player chooses a favored attribute for their character, granting them a +1 for all roles pertaining to this attribute, increasing to +2 at paragon tier and +3 at epic tier, effectively replacing the weapon expertise and implement expertise feats.

I would do away with class skills and allow characters to choose 5 trained skills from the entire list. Access to extra power sources and class features can be purchased using multi-class feats. 

No thoughts as yet on how to go about adjudicating weapon and armor proficiencies.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Joshua Sorenson (Shazbot)’s last blog post was &lt;a href=&quot;http://daegames.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-archive-update.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Blog Archive Update&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The class/level system of D&amp;D seems pretty intrinsic to the design. This is especially true with 4th Edition. It can be worked around, but the conversion would require a bit of work.</p>
<p>One way to do this, rather than going completely classless, is to broaden the concept of &#8220;character class&#8221; to the four class roles, Defender, Striker, Controller and Leader, each with it&#8217;s own generic mechanic promoting the role. This would determine defensive bonuses, hit points, healing surges, etc. as well as basic function.</p>
<p>From there, players choose a power source similar to the way you mentioned, from which to draw their powers. Each power source could have a unique mechanic for each of the generic role function mechanics that enhances it&#8217;s effect. For instance the striker&#8217;s extra damage mechanic could do an extra die of damage to a single foe for the Martial source, while a Divine striker&#8217;s extra damage does damage equal to the relevant ability modifier to foes adjacent to the target.</p>
<p>You could also institute a favored ability mechanic, similar to Castles &amp; Crusades, wherein the player chooses a favored attribute for their character, granting them a +1 for all roles pertaining to this attribute, increasing to +2 at paragon tier and +3 at epic tier, effectively replacing the weapon expertise and implement expertise feats.</p>
<p>I would do away with class skills and allow characters to choose 5 trained skills from the entire list. Access to extra power sources and class features can be purchased using multi-class feats. </p>
<p>No thoughts as yet on how to go about adjudicating weapon and armor proficiencies.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Joshua Sorenson (Shazbot)’s last blog post was <a href="http://daegames.blogspot.com/2009/05/blog-archive-update.html" rel="nofollow">Blog Archive Update</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: Making more of power sources - Paths of Adventure - Exploring RPGs through play and design</title>
		<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/comment-page-1/#comment-10</link>
		<dc:creator>Making more of power sources - Paths of Adventure - Exploring RPGs through play and design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pathsofadventure.com/?p=34#comment-10</guid>
		<description>[...] These feats might require additional prerequisites to balance them with the cost of the multiclass power-swap feat and the restriction of powers from a specific class. Or you could just chose to do away with classes all together. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] These feats might require additional prerequisites to balance them with the cost of the multiclass power-swap feat and the restriction of powers from a specific class. Or you could just chose to do away with classes all together. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alternate 4E Class Hit Points - Paths of Adventure - Exploring RPGs through play and design</title>
		<link>http://www.pathsofadventure.com/2009/04/21/creating-a-classless-system-with-4e/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Alternate 4E Class Hit Points - Paths of Adventure - Exploring RPGs through play and design</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.pathsofadventure.com/?p=34#comment-6</guid>
		<description>[...] Constitution score in the formula for starting hit points. I don&#8217;t like that hit points are determined by role rather than class in 4E. Two of the roles share the same base. That&#8217;s a rather narrow field of flavors, compared to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Constitution score in the formula for starting hit points. I don&#8217;t like that hit points are determined by role rather than class in 4E. Two of the roles share the same base. That&#8217;s a rather narrow field of flavors, compared to [...]</p>
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